Sales and Superfans with Business Sales Coach Michael Goodman

Welcome to {{d-show-title}} , the twice-weekly show that discusses what we all know that having customers, employees, and business allies deeply engaged with your brand is essential for sustained success.

  1. But how do you create these ‘business superfans’?
  2. What tools and strategies should be used?
  3. How can business superfans contribute to your business’ success?

I’m your host, {{d-show-author}} the author of the book called Creating Business Superfans! We’ll explore the answers to those questions and much more…

For information about how you can support the show, please visit: {{d-show-support-link}}

Let me introduce this episodes guest!


Sales and Superfans with Business Sales Coach Michael Goodman 


[00:00:00] Freddy D: today on the show we have Michael Goodman who will be take talking to us about sales approaches that generate sales and create super fan. This sure is to be an interesting conversation that you won't wanna miss. Welcome, Michael

[00:00:12] Michael Goodman: Well, thank you for having me. Freddie D seems weird to be calling you Freddie because every time I communicate with you it's always Frederick so.

[00:00:22] Michael Goodman: Freddy just seems so strange. You know, not, not formal,. 

[00:00:27] Freddy D: That's, this is the fun guy. This is the, the, the, the Frederick is the business guy. The Freddie D guy is the podcast host, host, the guy that makes things happen. He's the fun guy that you have a beer two with.

[00:00:39] Michael Goodman: I love him. 

[00:00:39] Freddy D: A glass of wine, et cetera. So car. That's it. So that's, that's the fun, dude. So Michael, how'd you get started in sales?

[00:00:49] Michael Goodman: You know, thinking about that question, I have a great story and I hope you find it as great as I do. When I was a. People, I could walk into a waiting room with a bunch of people sitting around in chairs and whatnot, and I could go one by one talking to each of them until my mom flowered at me and pulled me back. 

[00:01:06] Michael Goodman: Said, we don't talk to strangers. And I think what she was doing was watching the other people in the room seeing if I was annoying them or not. And then when I did, she pulled me back. And so this guy who knew me knew what I was like, and knew that I didn't have any trouble talking to people. And wasn't that shy.

[00:01:22] Michael Goodman: I thought I could be his sales guy, but he was starting a company with, of computer timeshare services and he thought I'd be a great sales guy for it. So he invited me to talk to him. I went to his office, I talked to him and I accepted the job, but I didn't know anything about what I was doing. I had no clue what I was doing.

[00:01:40] Michael Goodman: I didn't know how to call people on the phone. I didn't know how to talk to them. I didn't know how to find the people to call on the phone. I didn't know anything and so I started calling around. I started playing with the phone book and just calling, and really, I. Painfully worked my way into having some kinda language to, to say to somebody when I got 'em on the phone. 

[00:01:59] Michael Goodman: There's a [00:02:00] weird thing about this, Freddy. When you call somebody on the phone, they absolutely expect you to know what you called for. And so stumbling through that doesn't help. And so [00:02:09] Freddy D: I, oh no, that's, that's, that's, that's that's a face plant, as we would say. 

[00:02:13] Michael Goodman: Yeah. Right. 

[00:02:14] Michael Goodman: And that's, yeah, totally. Spent a year doing it badly. 

[00:02:18] Michael Goodman: Got to where I really just couldn't pick up the phone anymore. I hated picking up the phone and that was my job. And, and this was back in the day when you could actually reach people when you called them on the phone and it was. It was just painful. I didn't like it and I started slowing down. I wasn't doing it so much. 

[00:02:33] Michael Goodman: And and, and I ended up having a conversation with that guy in his office again and he fired me from my sales job, my first ever sales job. And, and, 'cause I wasn't doing anything. And it took him about a year, year and a half to actually fire me. And that guy was my dad. Oh wow. Right? Yeah. And so when you, when you fail for your dad, it's ugly. 

[00:02:57] Michael Goodman: It wasn't pretty. I hated [00:03:00] that and I wanted to prove that I can too, be good at this. And so I've stayed at it and I've gotten to a point where I'm pretty effective at it today, but all of it is because I failed my dad and, and that's how I got started. 

[00:03:13] Michael Goodman: Okay. Wow. What a story. What a story. I mean, that's especially, you know, In front of your dad is a, is a, is a tough one to swallow. 

[00:03:23] Michael Goodman: Yes. That stays with you for a long time. So that's definitely internal motivation to redeem yourself and, and kick some butt and, and you know, just look back at that as a teaching moment that transform your life in a positive way 

[00:03:38] Michael Goodman: and learn some stuff about what you're doing and structure and whatnot. 

[00:03:42] Michael Goodman: Yeah.

[00:03:42] Freddy D: So how'd you, how'd you evolve into doing, you know, sales coaching and sales mentoring with companies today?

[00:03:52] Michael Goodman:So, in 1999, I was the general manager and sales manager for a software training company that was here in [00:04:00] town. I was a. A corporate asset of a global company called Executor. They were a franchise organization. 

[00:04:09] Michael Goodman: Mm-hmm. And they owned the Phoenix location. So I was responsible for Phoenix and Tucson to help grow the revenue of the company. And that was the time bubble was bursting. I had worked for years to get a relationship with the local utility company, SS r p. I had had, I had a relationship with them. 

[00:04:31] Michael Goodman: I worked forever. And we finally got that piece of business into execute train. I got a contract with them and it was great. They had had something like 300 training days a year going on, and when the dotcom bubble burst, They went down to 30 training days not 3,000 a year, 300 a month, and they went down to 30 training days a month. 

[00:04:52] Michael Goodman: So, so I lost 90% of that business through nothing we did wrong. Right, right, right. Okay.

[00:04:59] Freddy D: And I

[00:04:59] Michael Goodman: remember [00:05:00] those days. Yeah. And that was the flavor of the world at the time. And here I am leading a training company. As a corporate asset, and I know that the headquarters is in trouble financially, and so the writing was on the wall and I began to look at what I wanted to do in technical education. 

[00:05:18] Michael Goodman: At that time, we were putting people through Microsoft certified systems engineering training, Novell engineering training. We were graduating people. When I first started doing that, five years earlier, we had graduated people who were going from. Our class from a $60,000 a year job where they were losing their job re-skilling into the certified engineer and moving up to 75, $80,000 just because they had the certification and some knowledge. 

[00:05:47] Michael Goodman: Wow. And I was fascinated by that. And what occurred to me late in that cycle, late in the time I was with Execut train, was that I was pretty skilled. A, I'd learned sales effectively by then. My dad was no longer gonna fire me if he'd [00:06:00] hired me. And I'd learned sales management. And it occurred to me that there was no effective training ground for salespeople. 

[00:06:08] Michael Goodman: Like there had been years earlier. Once upon a time you'd get a job at at the copy, one of the copy machine companies. And they would, they would teach you sales. They had a lot of great sales training programs.

[00:06:20] Freddy D: Right. I remember those days. Yep.

[00:06:22] Michael Goodman: Right. They became spin selling and some of the other major models and, and, but nobody had a sales model including Sandler. 

[00:06:30] Michael Goodman: To take somebody who's never been in sales before and help them learn sales. And it occurred to me, with my experience at the time, I can create a sales training academy and take kids who are going to high school and graduating and never gonna go to college, teach them how to sell and have them making a hundred thousand dollars a year, two years after they start, if they do the work. 

[00:06:52] Michael Goodman: Right, right.

[00:06:53] Freddy D: No, absolutely. I mean, you know, the thing is you, you know, you talk about kids, who's the best salespeople in the world? [00:07:00] It's kids. I mean, think, think about it. You know, they're, they, they're going to the grocery, you know, to the store. Yeah. And you know, they see a toy or, or gizmo or something that they want. 

[00:07:10] Freddy D: And so they go up to to mom and say, Hey mom, can I have this? Yeah. And mom says, well, you know, I gotta ask. Your dad. And so the kid goes back and spins it a little bit and says, mom says I can have this if you say this is okay. And then he goes, well, I wanna make sure the mom says it. And then it turns around and says, well, you know what? 

[00:07:28] Freddy D: I'll clean my room. I'll take out the garbage for a week, and blah, blah, blah. And they, and they keep going, and no is not an answer for them. They just repackage it and they keep going and they get the sale, and they get the toy or the gizmo right.

[00:07:43] Michael Goodman: Somehow we forget that when we become an adult and we, we accept more nos than we ever have to. 

[00:07:48] Freddy D: Right? Exactly. Yeah. We, we just, we as soon as we get a no, oh, shuck in my head down and off we go. And we don't try again. You know, a lot of, unfortunately, a lot of rookie salespeople don't try again [00:08:00] if figured, okay, well I'll just go to the next one, and that no, may not have been a affirmed No. It was just that I, I, I'm not convinced that, you know, I'm, I need your stuff.

[00:08:11] Michael Goodman: Right. And they don't know how to deal with the perception of conflict that, that no means to them. Correct. I'm, I'm afraid I can't go to Frederick and say, Hey, come on, we, we said that this was valuable for you. You said you liked it. Now you're a little hesitant. Help me understand what's going on. There's no language structure for them to understand how to reengage that conversation in a way that's meaningful and valuable to them.

[00:08:36] Freddy D: Correct. Correct. Yep. Yep. So what do you think, what do you think is some of the biggest mistakes that salespeople make?

[00:08:48] Michael Goodman: What occurs to me is, I'm gonna answer that question by pointing out what we're doing here. The number one mistake salespeople make is talking too much without [00:09:00] regard to what the agenda of the prospect is. That's the number

[00:09:04] Freddy D: one. Yeah. I would, does that make sense? Totally agree. Totally agree. They don't ask questions.

[00:09:08] Freddy D: They start just blah, blah, blah. Here's what we can do. Here's how we can help you. Lemme tell you how wonderful we are. We're great. We're wonderful. You need to buy us and all this stuff. And, and that person's not even listening anymore. There's shut off.

[00:09:19] Michael Goodman: Right. Which, you know, it's kind of what I'm doing here on this podcast is. 

[00:09:24] Michael Goodman: Blah, blah, blah. So hopefully there's some kind of interesting engaging stuff in it.

[00:09:29] Freddy D: Well, we're, we're, we're, we're sharing, we're educating and we're sharing information, so it's a little bit, a little bit different, but you know, what's, what's a, you know, after the sale, you know, I, I, there's a lot of. 

[00:09:40] Freddy D: People that still have like a transactional mindset that they make the sale and okay, it's done and then they move on to the next person and they really ignore, and this is what, you know, where, where leads to is, you know how to create super fans. They really ignore that existing customer 'cause well, that was a transaction, they're done.[00:10:00] 

[00:10:00] Freddy D: You know, I'm, I'm on to the next one.

[00:10:03] Michael Goodman: Yeah. I got my commission, I'm done with them.

[00:10:06] Freddy D: Right. And, and let's talk about how the importance of maintaining and building that relationship with those customers to get them into superfan. So, you know, my word for super, you know, brand advocate or an advocate is I call a superfan. 

[00:10:23] Freddy D: But you know, in a sense, the super fan is the, the, the rock star of the advocate. And. I think that a lot of salespeople, small business owners, entrepreneurs and even midsize businesses don't get it and, and don't maintain that engagement with those existing customers.

[00:10:45] Michael Goodman: Yeah. Yeah. Earlier you asked me how did I get into sales consulting, and I talked about, you know, wanting to create a sales training academy, which I never ran. 

[00:10:53] Michael Goodman: But I got to work for a lot of companies. I used that experience to gain consulting clients, right? Mm-hmm. And I learned something that's really [00:11:00] apropos of this question you've just asked me, and that is a lot of times salespeople don't fail because of the salesperson. They fail because of what executive leadership is asking them to do. 

[00:11:11] Michael Goodman: In the sales organization and, and I don't wanna throw executives under a bus, but I will. The fact is that it depends a lot on the sales organization itself. So if they're pushing the salesperson to close that and go away, that's the, that's up to, that's on the organization.

[00:11:29] Freddy D: Any sales. I agree. Totally agree.

[00:11:31] Michael Goodman: Right? Okay. Yeah, absolutely. Any salesperson worth his, understands that his reputation in the community. Is more important than his reputation with the company he's with because he's gonna be looking for another job every couple of years according to statistics. And he, his capacity to get a new job, especially in the same industry, is gonna be dependent on how well his customers are super fans. 

[00:11:58] Michael Goodman: Correct. Right? Yep. [00:12:00] So he's got to operate with a degree of integrity and empowerment that goes way beyond the environment. He may or may not be, or she may or may not be working in. Does that make sense?

[00:12:11] Freddy D: Totally makes sense. Right. You know, I can relate to you know, a, a real short story was, you know, when I was selling manufacturing software back in the mid nineties, early mid nineties I had a customer that became my superfan. 

[00:12:26] Freddy D: They were a a tool and dive mold shop basically. And The IT manager and I became really good friends. Actually the owner of the company became good friends. The other owner of the company that was in Sweden, and I became good friends and we're still friends today and we're talking decades later. 

[00:12:46] Freddy D: But. I looked at, when I spent time with them. It wasn't, we never got into how the software worked. You know, all the technical aspects. We looked at the, where they wanted to grow as a business. [00:13:00] Yeah. And how, how my tool, you know, I would basically find out, tell 'em, hey, you know, there's three, four other software products that can do the stuff. 

[00:13:07] Freddy D: They'll all do the job. Okay. Otherwise, they wouldn't be in business. Right. But let's look at where do you want to be in the next few years and et cetera, and then how this is gonna help. Get there. And it was funny 'cause when I started working with them, they were a 40 man shop. Four years later. They were 120 man shop. 

[00:13:26] Freddy D: They bought two businesses, bought, built Breezeways in there, and every time I needed a referral or used them as a reference, they were more than willing and they became my super fans, which in turn helped me sell more customers, which made me the number one sales guy in the company.

[00:13:45] Michael Goodman: That's awesome and that's how it works when you're doing your job. 

[00:13:48] Michael Goodman: Right, right, right. You just hit on something that I think is the critical, it's the critical answer to the question you asked me earlier. How do you create super fans? And you and I know that the [00:14:00] number one thing to do early in the conversation with a prospect is understand their needs at depth, right? 

[00:14:06] Michael Goodman: You have to qualify them as are, are they worth spending time on? And if they have needs, then it's worth exploring. And when you explore those needs in an effective way than really what you have are what you compare yourself to later. So if I go back and say, Hey, when we talked you needed this. This and this, and I think we've done that. 

[00:14:29] Michael Goodman: Have we hit those marks for you? Then you are helping them recognize that you. Produced and performed at the level they needed to when you first started with that, right?

[00:14:40] Freddy D: Oh, absolutely.

[00:14:41] Michael Goodman: A hundred percent of your super fandom is dependent on how well you solve the problems they actually have. Does that make sense?

[00:14:49] Freddy D: And that's it. And, and also it's sometimes it's. It's not problems, it's business aspiration goals. Yes. So, so, you know, you've got, you've got the [00:15:00] productivity problems that they need, but they need to get that solved so that they can grow their business. Like, like this particular company that I mentioned, you know, they wanted to grow and they did grow. 

[00:15:10] Freddy D: They grew three times their size. Because I understood that that was the long-term game plan that the owner,.

[00:15:18] Michael Goodman: Yes. 

[00:15:18] Freddy D: Wanted to accomplish. Yeah. And so I helped him position things in the organization that would get them there. 

[00:15:27] Michael Goodman: Your analysis, your needs analysis was exactly what made that thing work for you and created the lifetime friendship, right? 

[00:15:34] Freddy D: Yep. Yep.

[00:15:36] Michael Goodman: And that's because you listened. You heard them when they were talking, right? The only other thing you can do beyond that is to give them 10% more in some form or fashion than what they're asking you for, and then you're a hero. 

[00:15:49] Freddy D: But yeah. And, and, but one of the things that I did is and this is, this is one of the techniques to build super fans is. 

[00:15:59] Freddy D: I [00:16:00] acknowledged everybody. So when we did the, we held the meeting to demonstrate the software back then. Okay. And it doesn't matter whether it's software or encyclopedias or whatever the the thing is.

[00:16:12] Michael Goodman: Yes.

[00:16:13] Freddy D: Through everybody got a thank you letter in the mail that said thank you, Michael, for taking the time out of your busy day to participate in our meeting. 

[00:16:23] Freddy D: Your feedback was greatly appreciated and I'm grateful for the insight that you did and we look forward to, you know, working with you guys in the future and everybody I made sure to get everybody's name. And everybody, you know got a letter sent or got an email sent or a combination of both thanking them for their time, their feedback and everything else. 

[00:16:44] Freddy D: And what would happen is they would have a meeting afterwards to decide which vendor they wanted to go with, and everybody would turn around because I would ask, why did you pick us? And they would come back and says, well, we felt that after the [00:17:00] sale you would provide us with the best follow up and support. 

[00:17:04] Freddy D: And I, and, and, and bottom line was because I sent that. Thank you. Appreciate your time. And I made sure that I hit everybody's feedback points in there that I was listening. And what I would do is I'd mark 'em on a, on the market board in the conference, so I had a chance to, okay, Michael, what's, what are you looking to get out of today's presentation? 

[00:17:23] Freddy D: Blah, blah, blah. Steve, what are you looking, Mary, what are you looking? I write it all down and then I just spit that all back to 'em and say, Hey, you know, did we address what you, you wanted? Oh yes. And it was, it was, once you get the system down, it's actually pretty easy. And that's fun. You have fun doing it.

[00:17:40] Michael Goodman: I, I didn't know this, but it sounds like you and I have very similar models. Once you know what they want, the presentation becomes very simple later in the conversation. 'cause it's just hitting those buttons. Right. And then how you differentiate from other people. Yeah, that's, you know, that's ridiculously powerful and I respect that Frederick, in a big way.[00:18:00]

[00:18:00] Michael Goodman: I, there's, there's a thing about, you know, why, why would I buy a Chevrolet from this dealership versus that dealership? And at the end of the day, in a commodity market, the person makes the difference, the person, the humanity is the differentiator.

[00:18:14] Freddy D: Yep.

[00:18:15] Michael Goodman: We always want to feel like we're loved and lovable. 

[00:18:17] Michael Goodman: And when you sent out mail to each of those, acknowledging each of them personally by name and what they. What they listed, what you were saying was, I hear you. I care about you, and I just want you to know I appreciate you. Come on. There's nothing better than 

[00:18:34] Michael Goodman: that.

[00:18:35] Freddy D: No, it's, it's, I just built super fans out of all those, all those people in that room, and they, when it came down to making you know, picking the vendor, that was it. 

[00:18:45] Freddy D: And, and it, you know, years later, I used the same approach when I was selling construction management software to home builders is the same approach. And I would win every sale because, Of that approach and the competition had zero chance because [00:19:00] we didn't get into pricing, we got into strategies.

[00:19:04] Michael Goodman: That's so cool that that makes all the sense in the world. I wanted to ask if you've heard of a book called The Ultimate Question, and it's the root of the Net Promoter score. Are you familiar with that? 

[00:19:17] Freddy D: No, I'm not familiar with that book. 

[00:19:18] Freddy D: Okay, so Net Promoter Score is a way to rank. How you are doing with your client. And so you've, if you ask fundamentally, on a scale of one to 10, where would you rank us as a vendor or provider for your company? 

[00:19:32] Freddy D: And they give you a nine or a 10, you're on target, you're in the top 20%, right? 

[00:19:37] Freddy D: Mm-hmm.

[00:19:38] Michael Goodman: To a six, seven or eight. You're, you're, they like you and you're okay, but they're not a net promoter of who you are. And then if you're, you're below that, then you got a problem, you got an issue you need to resolve. 

[00:19:51] Freddy D: Right.

[00:19:52] Michael Goodman: That make sense? Okay.

[00:19:53] Freddy D: It does.

[00:19:54] Michael Goodman: And, and so if your net promoter score, I think that that, that's [00:20:00] one of the best ways to get the feedback to know if you are a sup, if they're a super fan, is to check in with them regularly on your score. What could we have done better for you to, to have gotten a higher score from you? 

[00:20:12] Michael Goodman: You get the feedback you need to adjust your business to make sure you serve them. Although most people won't say, Frederick you need to send me thank you notes every time we do business with you. They won't say things like that.

[00:20:24] Freddy D: Right. 

[00:20:25] Michael Goodman: They'll say things like, well, I, I don't know that you care about us as much, right? 

[00:20:30] Michael Goodman: Or something. 

[00:20:30] Michael Goodman: Exactly.

[00:20:32] Freddy D: true. And, and, and you know, it, it's and, and in the business superfan, you know, the book creating Business Super fans that I wrote, I have a score, you know, a scorecard. And you can go through that scorecard and, and find and score yourself from zero to 10. And in turn, put dots into, it's like a dartboard and take a look at where you're at with the score. 

[00:20:53] Freddy D: And most likely most businesses will have a dilapidated wheel. It won't be a nice smooth wheel. And then you can start, and then [00:21:00] there's an action plan with the thing that they get can get off of the business website that helps them make changes to improve their score. And it could be that they, they, they don't do good job in follow up. 

[00:21:12] Freddy D: And, and we could have a whole segment on follow up. 'cause you know, timing is everything. You don't wanna wait two hours. You want to get to somebody. If they come in, a web inquiry comes into your, from your website to you, you've got minutes to respond because otherwise they're shopping someplace else because you, and the first one that gets to 'em usually gets the business.

[00:21:34] Michael Goodman: Yes

[00:21:35] Freddy D: And, and there's no farm. There's no comparison or nothing. The you called first, you're on the job, they go with you. 

[00:21:43] Freddy D: I have a line that I teach people.

[00:21:45] Michael Goodman: Time kills all deals, right? Yeah. You don't respond. I will say that I'm always been fascinated by the SDRs, the sales development representatives in the software companies out of the Bay Area who have software. 

[00:21:59] Michael Goodman: [00:22:00] If that will allow you to call the person who's on your website right now. So they will track back to your phone number from your your Address that you're calling in from.

[00:22:10] Freddy D: Mm-hmm.

[00:22:10] Michael Goodman: And so while you're on the website, they will call you, which in many ways I think is creepy if they call me right then. 

[00:22:18] Michael Goodman: So, It's effective, but it's a little weird when it happens.

[00:22:24] Freddy D: Oh yeah. I mean, I, I get it. I mean, I've, I've responded to leads, you know, that came in and I've either called them within three minutes of the lead coming in. I typically, I hit, the first thing I do is I hit the, if they put in a U R L or I look at the email.

[00:22:40] Michael Goodman: Yes.

[00:22:41] Freddy D: And then I get the u r L out of the email.

[00:22:43] Michael Goodman: Yes.

[00:22:43] Freddy D: I go take a quick peek to their website to get a quick synopsis of what their business is.

[00:22:48] Michael Goodman: Yes.

[00:22:48] Freddy D: And I call them and says, oh, I understand you do this and this, and how can we help? You know, you've inquired for this, how can we help? Yeah, that's it. And I just shut up. How can we help?

[00:22:58] Michael Goodman: Yeah.

[00:22:59] Michael Goodman: [00:23:00] I I use a question like, you know, when you clicked on the link and wanted more information, I wanna make sure we cover that. What kinds of things do you wanna know from me? Right? But either way, when they're talking, you're getting the information you need to progress effectively. If they're not talking, you're, you're twiddling your thumbs.

[00:23:18] Freddy D: Yep. Yep. So let's, let's You know, you've got the salesperson, but how important is it, you know? Okay. The sale's done. How important is the, the, the post-sales with the rest of the eng, the members of the company you know, the t the employees and stuff, building that relationship. 'cause as we all know, the sale begins after the sale.

[00:23:42] Michael Goodman: Yeah.

[00:23:42] Freddy D: And, and so to create the super fans beyond the salesperson, what's, what's the, the backend gotta do you.

[00:23:51] Michael Goodman: Know, this, this is why I talked a little bit about it depends on the company and depends on the leadership. In my mind, any leadership that's worth its salt is [00:24:00] training all of the team members, that everybody's a salesperson and we're all here to make sure the customer is happy and taken care of. 

[00:24:07] Michael Goodman: So no matter what ha happens, you what you have in post-sale. Either the sales guy becomes a project manager for, to make sure that the, the implementation goes well, or the sales guy is sent to carry on with other people and they're people who are designed to be the, the support and implementation people. 

[00:24:25] Michael Goodman: Whatever it is, everybody has to be on point to make sure that customer is taken care of. Right. Period.

[00:24:32] Freddy D: Absolutely. Absolutely.

[00:24:34] Michael Goodman: And every company has their own process. So once, once they sign off the document, every company has their own process now on how to initiate and implement that transaction. 

[00:24:43] Michael Goodman: Including everything from how does it go through finance and accounting, how does it get to production, if there's production involved? How do we, how do we serve what we sold? And and then it's a matter of maintaining the relationship as you are one of the brilliant speakers of if you don't [00:25:00] maintain the relationship, you're toast. 

[00:25:03] Michael Goodman: Okay. And so somebody has to be responsible for keeping them happy, and that's where the sales person's notes on the needs analysis have to be impeccable in the database. You wanna know what the biggest mistake companies make? They piss away the use of the database instead of using it as a primary tool for relating to that customer. Right?

[00:25:26] Freddy D: Yeah.

[00:25:27] Michael Goodman: The original notes on the needs analysis, somebody goes back and makes sure that all of that is being covered and are we doing a good job and do you love us? Right? And if they don't, then deal with it right now. Fix it with the same smile you broke it with or sold it with, right?

[00:25:43] Freddy D: Sure. Yeah. And but the other, the absolutely correct. 

[00:25:47] Freddy D: And then, but the other part of the equation that needs to be incorporated is that if that company, that management doesn't take care of their employees Yeah. And appreciate their employees, then you're gonna have [00:26:00] someone that's gonna be a little bit disgruntled because they don't feel appreciated. They feel they've been shortchanged, ignored. 

[00:26:06] Freddy D: Blah, blah, blah, whatever it is, they're not going to go all out and go the extra effort for that customer. They're gonna basically say, well, I'm just gonna do my minimum because,

[00:26:18] Michael Goodman: Yeah, 

[00:26:18] Freddy D: that's it. And, and so even though the sales guy may have done a great job and built a great relationship with the customer, and the flow is all set, set up correctly, but the missing link is the employee or employees. 

[00:26:35] Michael Goodman: Yes.

[00:26:35] Freddy D: Feel not basically are, are unappreciated or not even recognized for their extra efforts to solve something, they're not gonna put forth that extra effort that needs to be for a sit particular situation. And the whole thing starts to unravel.

[00:26:54] Michael Goodman: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:26:55] Michael Goodman: I, I, you know, I've been in the Phoenix area for a long, long [00:27:00] time, and for years I've gotten gas at Circle K or QuickTrip or different places, and it is ridiculously noticeable how the difference between walking into a QuickTrip is and walking into a circle. 

[00:27:12] Michael Goodman: K don't mind me while I throw corporate America under a bus, but I'm going to, they are trained at a quick trip to say hello to everybody to walk that walks in the door. And create a moment of humanity. Now, most of the time they're walking in the door after they've spent money on gas, right? And they're coming in to get a snack or whatever they're doing. 

[00:27:30] Michael Goodman: You walk into a door to circle K and people don't acknowledge you and and you're, it's sometimes a struggle to get a cashier to help you. On your agenda versus their own, whatever they might be doing.

[00:27:42] Freddy D: Mm-hmm.

[00:27:43] Michael Goodman: And the difference in the feeling of being cared for or not cared for is pretty evident, pretty obvious that QuickTrip makes an intentional effort at creating relatedness between the store and its customers and other organizations Don't.[00:28:00] 

[00:28:00] Michael Goodman: Well, and it goes, that goes back to management. And so the management is obviously taking care of the employees and making the employees feel valued. Yes. And appreciated.

[00:28:09] Freddy D: Yes. 'cause you can, again, if you don't express that appreciation and gratitude, you can do all the training in the world. The employees still gonna say, eh, okay. Hello?

[00:28:20] Michael Goodman: Yeah.

[00:28:20] Freddy D: You know it. Because they got to, but there's not, hello. Hey, welcome in. You know, it's a, it's a different mindset because they're happy doing what they're doing. Yeah. And it comes across genuinely. That's the big difference too.

[00:28:35] Michael Goodman: Yes. One of the things I've taken to doing, I. Is, and, and this came because I was doing a lot of work in organizations to help their sales teams and not being able to make an impact recognizing that executive management is responsible for a big chunk of that. 

[00:28:51] Michael Goodman: After I'm gone, I took on certification with the John Maxwell team, a, a huge leadership structure organization, [00:29:00] and if there's a high turnover rate in companies, I almost always include leadership training as a gift or a bonus for the executives. I don't do it because I like giving it away. I do, but I, but I do it because if they understand they have a role in the sales effort and what that role is, then there's a higher, much greater likelihood of whatever work I do being successful in that thing over time.

[00:29:28] Freddy D: So, so Michael, how can people get ahold of you?

[00:29:34] Michael Goodman: You know, it's really easy to find my website, revenue and you can get ahold of me through the messaging app there. I would love it if people emailed me or called me. I will answer my, if I'm not busy, I will answer my phone. If you are a spam caller, I'm not as nice, but if you're calling me 'cause I can help you in some form or fashion then please call me. 

[00:29:57] Michael Goodman: My telephone number is 602 [00:30:00] 5 0 9 5 5 0 6 or my email address that my in is Michael. M i c h a e l. Just, you know, like, like, not like Mickey Mouse, I suppose. And my, nevermind Send me an email and I would love to help people. I, I like, I love this stuff. 

[00:30:24] Freddy D: And what do you, what do you have, what do you have for our viewers and, and listeners as an offer that would entice 'em to reach out to you and, and have you take a look at what's happening in their business and, and help them explode their business?

[00:30:36] Michael Goodman: Yeah. Well, first off, you should know that I do this because I love it. You gotta tell me you don't love helping salespeople. You love the light going on, you love the increase, the impact you make in company. I love this stuff so they can call me and ask questions. Just because they want to, but I wanna, I wanna, I want to encent or induce business owners to give me a call. 

[00:30:57] Michael Goodman: So here's what I'll do. Any business [00:31:00] owner that gives me a call that I will spend time with them, I will find them $50,000 worth of profit in their business. This goes beyond my. I have to say, if they started the business yesterday, it may not be able to happen. Right.

[00:31:15] Freddy D: And none. But you could point 'em in the road to where they can earn 50,000.

[00:31:20] Michael Goodman: Absolutely will Right. And want to. But but I will find any business owner $50,000 in one hour without them spending any more money on marketing or advertising that's already in the business that they're not capturing. And they, and much of it can be captured inside of 30 days.

[00:31:38] Freddy D: Wow. That's amazing folks. 

[00:31:40] Michael Goodman: Yeah. 

[00:31:40] Freddy D: That's amazing. Reach out to Michael and have him take a look at your business and put 50 grand into your pocket that you didn't know you had. 

[00:31:49] Michael Goodman: Right,

[00:31:50] Freddy D: Exactly, exactly.

[00:31:52] Michael Goodman: Makes it a cheap phone call, doesn't it?

[00:31:55] Freddy D: Exactly. Or an expensive one if you don't make the phone call. There you go. All right. [00:32:00] So, all right Michael, well, pleasure having you on the show. 

[00:32:03] Freddy D: And I look forward to having you on the show again, continuing our conversations about sales and, and creating super fans and things that business owners can be doing. And, and again, thanks so much for being on the show.

[00:32:15] Michael Goodman: Frederick, I I, just before we get outta here, I just wanna say thank you for having me on the show. I appreciate.

[00:32:20] Freddy D: You're welcome.

[00:32:21] Michael Goodman: I love your book, and as I mentioned, I think I'm on the cover somewhere. I love the work you have done, and it's clear how much you have brought to people to make a difference in their lives with the book. It's powerful and there's good material in it, so thank you for inviting me to be in your orbit and, and be a partner here today.

[00:32:41] Freddy D: All right, Michael. Thank you very much.

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